Podcast Episode 1: Home for the Holidays? – The Family Dinner Project

We’re thrilled to announce the launch of our newest enterprise: The Family Dinner Project Podcast! In every of our 30-minute episodes, Content material Supervisor Bri DeRosa and Government Director Dr. Anne Fishel will speak by means of robust subjects associated to household meals. Pull up a chair and seize a plate — we’re serving up actual discuss household dinner!

In Episode 1, “House for the Holidays?” we dig into the difficult query of what to do when gathering with household for the vacations feels difficult. Will there be rigidity on the dinner desk? Political or ideological variations that make it arduous to remain merry? Does it even really feel secure to go residence for the vacations?

Dr. Fishel shares methods and recommendation from her a long time of expertise in household remedy. From neutralizing rigidity with sensible concepts for video games and dialog starters that distract from variations, to providing knowledge and solace for households who’re coping with estrangement this vacation season, she presents loads of methods to make the vacations give you the results you want, it doesn’t matter what your loved ones dynamics appear to be. She and Bri additionally delve into popular culture with a dialogue of the viral Christmas dinner episode of Hulu’s The Bear. (No surprise Carmy didn’t need to go residence for the vacations!) They wrap up the dialog with their suggestions for vacation meals (latkes), enjoyable (a holiday dinner scavenger hunt), and dialog (Who do you want might be part of us for the vacations, who isn’t current this yr?). Whether or not you’re wanting ahead to a family holiday celebration this yr, or simply attempting to outlive an advanced season, we’ve received concepts you should utilize.

Episode Transcript:

Episode 1: House for the Holidays?

Anne Fishel: Welcome to the Household Dinner Venture podcast, produced by the Household Dinner Venture, a non revenue program primarily based at Massachusetts Common Hospital’s Psychiatry Academy. A long time of analysis present us why household dinners are vital. They’re nice for the our bodies, the brains, and the psychological well being of youngsters and adults.

Bri DeRosa: However they’re not all the time simple. We’re right here to speak in regards to the messy enterprise of find out how to make household dinners occur. So pull up a chair and seize a plate. We’re serving up actual discuss household dinner.

Welcome to the Household Dinner Venture podcast. I’m Bri DeRosa, content material supervisor for the Household Dinner Venture. 

Anne Fishel: I’m Anne Fishel, the co founder and government director of The Household Dinner Venture, and I’m additionally a household therapist, which can come in useful at the moment. I head up the household and {couples} remedy program additionally, at Mass Common Hospital.

Bri DeRosa: I really feel such as you being a household therapist is unquestionably going to come in useful at the moment, Annie, given the subjects that we’ve on the desk for this episode. I simply need to give our listeners a bit little bit of an summary of why we began this podcast. That is our first episode and we’re so pleased to be right here.

The Household Dinner Venture has been offering on-line and in individual assets to households since. Gosh, 2010. I imply, it’s been a extremely very long time, and we’ve had hundreds of thousands of individuals come to our web site. We’ve helped hundreds and hundreds of households in individual at our neighborhood applications. We’ve developed a number of assets, print, on-line, all types of issues.

But it surely’s actually limiting generally to simply be writing or creating graphics and never all the time be capable to actually have an sincere dialog about among the issues that folks really need us to speak about. We hear from people on a regular basis about issues which can be bothering them or issues that they’d like extra assist with.

And so this podcast is our manner of attempting to dig a bit bit deeper into among the issues in regards to the how of household dinner that may simply be so, so difficult for individuals. So. Given, on condition that framing, at the moment is December…December 4th, and we’re recording and preparing for a vacation season arising. And Annie, you, as a household therapist, know higher than anybody that the vacations might be difficult. And household dinner on the holidays might be past difficult, I suppose is what I need to say.

So, I need to ask you, how can we, when individuals are attempting to assemble for giant household dinners, holidays, celebrations. How can we preserve type of rigidity low and preserve everybody having enjoyable and feeling engaged, even when perhaps not everybody will get alongside on a regular basis? 

Anne Fishel: Yeah, it’s a problem. I feel expectations run actually excessive at holidays, and we include a lot historical past normally.

And I feel that the acquainted trope of feeling that whenever you go residence, you immediately grow to be an individual a lot youthful than your precise age as you type of fold into your loved ones system. So I feel, you recognize, being conscious that it’s, it’s troublesome for everyone and what can we do to, as you say, make the enjoyable increased and the battle decrease?

I feel holding in thoughts what it’s that you simply take pleasure in most in regards to the holidays and attempting to just remember to get that, whether or not it’s a favourite meals that you simply make certain is on the vacation desk, or a recreation, or any individual that you simply’re actually wanting ahead to seeing, since you solely see them every year, and making a beeline for that individual so that you’re positive to make a connection. And I feel if you happen to’re internet hosting the vacations, there are issues that you are able to do to reinforce all people’s enjoyment. 

One factor is perhaps to have some conversations up your sleeve that shall be inclusive of all people within the household. Or having a recreation. I, in 2016, after the dicey election once I, at my vacation desk, I didn’t know if all people was going to really feel upset or joyful in regards to the election outcomes. And I believed there could possibly be a whole lot of battle at my desk. And I designed what I name the hat recreation. And I put on the door a hat and a bunch of publish its, and as individuals got here in, I posed a query, which was, what was– what was, or is, your favourite toy? And write it down, and on one other piece of paper, write down a guide that modified your life ultimately. After which I introduced the hat to the desk and I pulled out the solutions, which had been nameless. And I requested individuals to guess. Who mentioned slinky? Who mentioned, jacks and a ball? Who mentioned ping pong? After which whoever had made that providing might elaborate on it.

And the dialog would prolong, or we’d go on to the subsequent individual. And that supplied a desk broad dialog devoid of any political content material. And it was shocking. Folks realized new issues about one another. 

Bri DeRosa: I really like that a lot. And I feel what I really like about it’s, you recognize, you mentioned proper on the, the highest there that, you recognize, getting along with our households brings us again to a special second in our lives, proper?

It type of rewinds the clock a bit bit. And I feel we, a whole lot of us can really feel the reality of that. And whenever you’re bringing it, bringing the dialog to a spot about childhood toys or books or, you recognize, issues that, that additionally type of construct on that reminiscence and, and, you recognize, completely different moments in your life, and take it out of type of the stress and the fraughtness of like no matter’s taking place proper now on this planet.

Yeah, there’s one thing actually nostalgic and fantastic about that. That’s additionally not too avoidant, I suppose, you recognize? 

Anne Fishel: Proper. It’s not simply how, how, how is the climate the place you got here from? You recognize, it’s a, it’s a bit step up from that. 

I feel form of piggybacking on the thought of utilizing the nostalgia and the collective reminiscence that is also round, usually is across the household dinner desk. It may be actually enjoyable and fascinating to ask any individual to inform a well-recognized story. You recognize Uncle Jack, we haven’t heard that story about how you bought fired out of your first job that all of us, you recognize, all the time take pleasure in a lot. Would you thoughts telling that once more? Or, you recognize, I’ve a pricey pal who all the time involves my vacation meals and I wish to ask her in entrance of my children, to inform some tales about rising up within the South through the civil rights motion, and she or he’s received some fabulous historic tales about that. And so, type of, you recognize, utilizing the household gathering to inform and keep in mind tales, I feel is absolutely vital. You recognize, simply might be enjoyable. 

Bri DeRosa: Yeah, no, I, I really like that. I, I really like that concept. And I feel, you recognize, it simply makes me suppose actually final night time we had been, we had a while as a household. We watched a vacation film collectively. We– my teenage boys needed to rewatch House Alone. So we had been watching House Alone, and there’s the type of secondary storyline in there of the older neighbor who’s estranged from his son, although they stay in the identical city.

And one thing about that storyline actually type of caught my children’ consideration this yr. I feel it was simply perhaps a element they’d not considered very a lot earlier than, and it gave me an awesome alternative to say, you recognize, did you ever hear the story about when your grandfather and your nice grandfather, who lived in the identical city, didn’t converse to one another for six months? They usually mentioned, What? Grandpa? And I mentioned, yeah, no, oh my gosh, I can’t imagine you didn’t know that story. 

And so we talked about that and it, it allowed me to deliver to life for them some individuals who had been actually influential in my life as a baby that they by no means had the chance to actually construct relationships with and get to know, and it was simply that good second of like, hey, this vacation film out of nowhere supplied us this household storytelling alternative. And, and I feel it was actually, it was actually simply type of like a wealthy and fantastic second for them.

Anne Fishel: Love that. Yeah. 

Bri DeRosa: And so talking of flicks and TV and content material that type of brings us by means of to issues that we need to discuss, this goes to the query of rigidity on the desk and bringing forth concepts about our holidays and, and household relationships from well-liked media.

We don’t do a whole lot of popular culture on the Household Dinner Venture, however after we do, it’s for a motive. And you lately wrote an amazing weblog publish for us about your response to the hit present, The Bear, and their Christmas dinner episode, Fishes. And if I’ll simply say for our listeners, like if you happen to haven’t watched The Bear and also you haven’t seen the episode, I feel this dialog will nonetheless perhaps make sense to you, so keep on with us. However when you have seen it, you’re going to positively have your personal opinions about this. 

Annie, let’s discuss The Bear. It is a place the place individuals went into this household dinner, this vacation dinner, with perhaps the most effective of intentions, proper? However this, this, there’s a lot there about, you recognize, a baby who didn’t need to go residence for the vacations and didn’t need to– 

Anne Fishel: –Possibly shouldn’t have gone residence.

Bri DeRosa: Possibly shouldn’t have gone residence, proper. And, and positively was put in that place. You recognize, once I watched that episode, I see Carmy getting put again into that place of the, the little sibling, proper? The little child. Everyone’s treating him not as this like superb Michelin starred chef, however as this, you recognize, very small individual within the household unit. And there’s a lot drama and battle and all the things happening and positively completely different ideologies, definitely completely different concepts about life and household and holidays and all types of various issues happening. Discuss to us a bit bit about all of this. What, what’s it… what can individuals take away from an, an episode like this?

What does it inform us about whenever you perhaps shouldn’t go residence? Once you perhaps can’t have that household vacation dinner? When, when the hat recreation isn’t sufficient, I suppose? 

Anne Fishel: When is the hat recreation not sufficient? 

Bri DeRosa: When is the hat recreation not sufficient? 

Anne Fishel: Sure. So, oh, there’s a lot to speak about with The Bear. I imply, it’s additionally a household that’s fighting a whole lot of psychological well being challenges.

The matriarch, Donna, clearly has a extreme drawback with alcohol. She drinks volubly all through the episode and is sobbing and, spoiler alert, drives her automotive by means of the eating room by the top of the episode. So there’s a whole lot of psychopathology that the household is coping with, however there’s additionally a number of tenderness and makes an attempt for connection and, and candy moments peppered all through the dinner.

So I suppose my takeaways had been, had been a pair, some that I’ve alluded to. Issues actually begin to devolve round one of many– Mikey, one of many sons, retelling a narrative for the umpteenth time and one other member of the family getting livid. And I believed, no, let Mikey inform that story. That’s one of many important causes we collect for holidays, to inform tales in order that our youngsters, our grandchildren hear them. In order that they’re etched in our collective reminiscence, in order that we are able to keep in mind the individuals who advised the tales, even after they’re gone. So let Mikey inform that story. In order that that was one type of take away. 

One other was the best way that members of the family have a simply laser like skill to press our buttons. I imply, who is aware of us higher than our mother and father, our youngsters, our, our nieces, our nephews. And so coming to household vacation meals, simply girding ourselves to not let these buttons be punched or pushed. And as an alternative to perhaps have, if we all know that that’s a household model, to have some comeback. I actually would reasonably not discuss my weight achieve this yr. I actually hoped to speak to you a few journey I took. Or, that’s one thing that I solely talk about with my therapist and I don’t see a level subsequent to your identify. Or if you happen to’re not feeling that snarky, why do you ask that? Why is that so fascinating to you? So form of being prepared for that, perhaps to have some, some comebacks.

After which I suppose the opposite takeaway is the stress to not make a household meal excellent. And the corollary to that’s not placing a lot stress on your self, if you happen to’re the host, that you must management each morsel that individuals are going to eat and as an alternative to succeed in out and ask for assist. Even if you happen to don’t love the mashed potatoes that your uncle Sam makes, invite him to make it realizing that’s going to be an hour or two off, you recognize, that you simply’re going to get again on your life and also you’re not going to be fairly as bedraggled and burdened whenever you come to the desk. 

In order that, that was one other takeaway, as a result of the matriarch tries to make 7 dishes of fishes come out all on the similar time. I imply, it’s such a recipe for catastrophe. Who might presumably make that meal occur all by herself? 

Bri DeRosa: And but, by the best way, any Italian-American listener proper now could be going yeah, no, that’s what you do although. Proper? That’s the Feast of the Seven Fishes. And it’s, there’s something type of fantastical and inconceivable about, you recognize, I feel for it doesn’t matter what your custom is, the best way that we strategy vacation meals, proper?

And in that, in that episode, even, I can by no means keep in mind his identify. However their cousin’s companion, who’s simply so candy when he’s attempting to carry all the things collectively by providing his model of some form of– I feel it’s imagined to be Grace, proper? But it surely’s fairly loosely identifiable as Grace. He’s attempting to calm all people down. He’s attempting to maintain Mikey from throwing a fork. Proper. And he type of alludes to the specialness and the type of fantastical nature of this vacation meal and what they’re attempting to realize with the meals, with the gathering, with the approaching collectively, and what all of it actually means at this type of like deeper molecular degree. 

Anne Fishel: We’re going to should chew extra and we’re going to should hear extra. 

Bri DeRosa: Chew extra and we’re going to should hear extra. Proper. It’s superb. And it’s, you recognize, and it makes, it does make you suppose, proper. Pete exhibits up along with his tuna casserole. And the very first thing all of them do is go, No no no!

Proper. That is just like the eighth fish. We can’t have eight fishes. There are seven fishes and, and all the things is completely deliberate. Proper. And the tuna casserole goes to set the universe off its axis. Proper. This poor, candy, dope Pete, who’s simply attempting to assist. Proper. However he wasn’t requested and it’s, you recognize, it’s such a excessive stress state of affairs.

Anne Fishel: And when individuals are requested, it not solely takes the burden off the host, but it surely additionally makes individuals really feel like they’re creating it, too, like this vacation belongs to all people. And that’s, I feel, such an vital a part of making a vacation enjoyable and lowering battle all on the similar time. It’s most likely a lesson for normal meals too, not simply vacation meals, that the extra we are able to get our members of the family to take part, serving to to cook dinner, serving to to set the desk, choosing a recreation, no matter it is perhaps, it makes all of them really feel like that is ours too. 

Bri DeRosa: Yeah, I really like that, that concept of simply, we’re co creating an expertise collectively as a household, proper?

It’s not one individual. I feel one of many issues in, in The Bear, in that episode Fishes, but in addition in a whole lot of the extra tense and difficult actual life household gatherings that all of us have, is that side of management, proper? And a part of the place I feel even on a regular basis household dinners go awry– and we hear this so much in numerous methods from individuals, from households over time– there’s all the time, virtually all the time, this ingredient of needing to manage the atmosphere, proper? One individual is form of scripting how they suppose household meals must go. And perhaps, perhaps even there’s one other individual on the desk who has a completely completely different script for a way the household meal must go. And that’s the place it begins to collapse as a result of we’re not co creating.

We’re, we’re attempting to observe completely different scripts and completely different concepts and completely different guidelines and completely different tips and constructions. And if we’re not all on the identical web page and we’re not all working collectively to make the expertise, it might probably actually trigger challenges, I feel. 

Yeah, so what what occurs… I imply, you recognize, we’ve talked about type of the solvability of a few of this, proper? However what occurs if you happen to simply actually, to your level about Carmy, shouldn’t go residence? Or you’ll be able to’t, you don’t really feel secure going residence. I don’t wish to ought to individuals. Proper. However like, you don’t really feel secure going residence. There are a whole lot of households on the market who sadly are in the course of rupture and so they’re not capable of restore.

Anne Fishel: Proper, or they don’t really feel secure due to how their household goes to deal with their youngsters, as a result of their youngsters are homosexual or trans and so they don’t need to topic their children to tough questions or rolling, rolled eyes, or, you recognize, disparaging feedback. And for these households, it might be the, the most effective concept to not go residence for holidays. Possibly to make use of it as a, as a chance to speak to a household about why they don’t really feel secure, or perhaps not. Possibly even that seems like an excessive amount of. 

Some households may need to simply have a fast cellphone name to say pleased holidays, or zoom and depart it at that. However for households who aren’t going residence it’s additionally an opportunity to give you their very own methods to create pleasure or have a celebration with one another or simply determine, you recognize, what would we love to do?

Now we have a free day. We don’t should go to work or faculty. What’s going to, what would we love to do? Possibly it’s taking a hike or watching a household, watching a vacation film, or making a luscious dessert collectively. You recognize, it could possibly be simply reinventing the vacation on their very own phrases. 

Bri DeRosa: Yeah, you recognize, I feel that’s so vital.

I feel I’ve personally been conscious this yr of extra individuals in my orbit than most likely ever earlier than who’re going through a extremely troublesome vacation season. The lack to be with household for one motive or one other, a whole lot of them traumatic causes. And, you recognize, we’ve all been brainstorming a bit bit about find out how to assist.

You recognize, what are you able to do? What could possibly be your new custom this yr? What might you check out together with your children? Or, or, you recognize, by yourself with your folks, your loved ones of selection, proper? Possibly you’re going to have a pal primarily based vacation, a neighborhood vacation. And among the, among the concepts have been actually enjoyable.

You recognize, they’re, one of many issues is there’s this Icelandic custom that makes the rounds yearly on the web of giving books and goodies to at least one one other after which spending the day studying collectively and being cozy and consuming chocolate. And that is perhaps the vibe for some individuals, proper?

Or one other factor was you may get– 

Anne Fishel: –I do know, we noticed that. And I mentioned to my husband, is it too late to name off our common vacation celebration? I need to enroll in that one! 

Bri DeRosa: I do know, proper. Books and chocolate appears like my vibe. 

One other one which I used to be loving was, I feel a whole lot of us like to hate on the Hallmark vacation film. You recognize, the, the one plot, 82 motion pictures type of a factor. Don’t, don’t– please don’t write to us, all people. We, we love Hallmark vacation motion pictures. However the, you may get bingo playing cards on-line. Like, that is such a factor now. You’ll be able to truly print out bingo playing cards from any variety of websites that, and switch the Hallmark vacation film watching into type of a recreation of, you recognize, Oh, properly, there’s the, the overworked lady who’s leaving her metropolis job and going residence. And right here’s the lumberjack man who has a Christmas tree farm. And, you recognize, you’ll be able to type of mark your bingo playing cards. 

And so, you recognize, enjoyable issues like that, foolish issues like that may, I feel, actually lighten the temper. But it surely’s additionally simply actually arduous. I simply need to, like, sit for a minute with the acknowledgement that it’s actually arduous. Should you’re any individual who’s going through grief or loss or estrangement or any type of, you recognize, vacation trauma this yr, yeah, you’ll be able to, you should buy some books and a few chocolate or you’ll be able to watch Hallmark motion pictures or you are able to do no matter you’re going to do. However there’s, there’s actual feeling there. And so do you will have any type of, I don’t know, phrases of knowledge or solace to supply individuals? Methods to cope with these emotions?

Anne Fishel: Yeah, I imply, I feel you’ve, you’ve put it rather well, Bri. I feel acknowledging it and perhaps reaching out to any individual else who’s additionally having a tough time, who isn’t seeing this as a time of nice pleasure and frivolity and, and so forth. And, you recognize, doing the issues that make you are feeling taken care of, you recognize, whether or not it’s sitting and studying a guide or taking a stroll by your self, or, you recognize, ensuring to attach with any individual who cares about you and who you are feeling at residence with, you recognize, residence is absolutely not synonymous with household. House is, is a sense, it’s a sense of being comfy in your personal pores and skin whenever you’re with any individual else. And so reaching out to whoever that is perhaps for you. Might be a therapist. It could possibly be a pal. It could possibly be a, a, a baby. It could possibly be you recognize, whoever it’s. 

Bri DeRosa: I really like that, that concept that house is being comfy in your personal pores and skin, proper?

And I feel we all the time attempt to inform individuals household additionally doesn’t should be outlined by blood. Household might be the individuals who offer you that feeling of residence, proper? That feeling of consolation in your personal pores and skin and that feeling of worth and security. So thanks for, thanks for that, serving to us type of body these difficult vacation season feelings.

There’s so much this time of yr that comes up, you recognize? 

Anne Fishel: I feel many people are relieved after we can flip the web page on the calendar. 

Bri DeRosa: Yeah, New Yr’s Day is form of that chance for a recent begin, proper? 

Nicely, talking of turning the web page, we’re coming to the top of our very first episode of the Household Dinner Venture podcast. And I’ve had a lot enjoyable speaking to you, Annie, and getting your extremely clever and useful insights about this very troublesome and difficult and likewise joyful and fantastic time of yr. It’s an enormous combined bag for households. 

Anne Fishel: It’s. 

Bri DeRosa: Yeah, so we needed to start our personal custom right here on the podcast of ending our episodes with some options for our three pillars of household meals.

We all the time say that we’re about meals, enjoyable, and dialog about issues that matter. And so on the finish of every episode, Annie and I want to provide our listeners one concept for meals, one for enjoyable, and one for a dialog starter that we expect could be nice so that you can take ahead into your loved ones dinner follow for the remainder of the season, till we meet once more on our subsequent episode in 2024.

So Annie, I’m gonna kick it off with you, asking you in regards to the meals side. I do know you will have a particular household vacation recipe that you simply wanna name all people’s consideration to. 

Anne Fishel: Thanks. So December seventh is the first night time of Hanukkah, and I’m a part of a interfaith household. And my husband, who was raised in a Christian household, took possession of the latke recipe, which is the standard potato pancake recipe. And it’s on our web site. It’s actually fairly scrumptious. It may be scaled up. And for a lot of a long time, we hosted a 3 generational chaotic, fantastic, large Hanukkah occasion. And I’m positive that a lot of the friends got here primarily to get a nibble of these potato latkes, that are actually fantastic.

Bri DeRosa: Nicely, it’s a nice recipe and it’s obtainable on the web site at thefamilydinnerproject.org/meals, and you’ll search latke, that’s L A T Ok E if you happen to don’t know find out how to spell it, and people, these will come straight up for you. 

Anne Fishel: And Bri, inform us one thing enjoyable that you simply need to share in regards to the vacation season.

Bri DeRosa: Thanks. Yeah, I’m so enthusiastic about this one. So I received enthusiastic about vacation dinners and about generally, we’re in a gaggle with individuals we don’t know very properly, as a result of we don’t see them that usually or as a result of we’re mixing households or traditions or households. And we’re going to be doing that this yr. I, my sister is coming from out of city and she or he’s going to be spending a part of the vacations with my brother in regulation’s household with us, and she or he hasn’t met all of them. So I believed it is perhaps good to have a solution to get to know one another a bit bit higher and to type of discover out a bit bit extra in regards to the traditions and the individuals you’re surrounded by.

So we got here up with a vacation dinner scavenger hunt. That is obtainable on our website at thefamilydinnerproject.org/holidays. It’s a printable or a downloadable. You’ll be able to simply take a look at it in your cellphone, or you’ll be able to print it out and provides it to all people and so they can mark their sheets, and see what they will be taught in regards to the individuals and the meals which can be being offered at this vacation dinner. So, actually, actually enjoyable. And I hope all people checks it out. 

After which our very last thing is, Annie, a dialog starter that basically strikes you as being the appropriate one for this second and this podcast episode and dialog that we’ve had. What would you ask individuals to go ahead and discuss? 

Anne Fishel: I believed it is perhaps fascinating, and I want to do that at my vacation dinner, to ask who else would you want might be part of us tonight?

It could possibly be a well-known individual, a star, it could possibly be a member of the family who’s not strolling this earth, it could possibly be a pal or a household who simply wasn’t obtainable to hitch us. And if you happen to wouldn’t thoughts additionally saying why. What, what you, why you prefer to that individual to be with us tonight. 

Bri DeRosa: Yeah, I feel that’s a extremely useful one and actually speaks to the center of this dialog. You recognize, that it’s actually about type of making peace with the vacations that we’ve, and likewise pondering aspirationally a bit bit, and reflectively a bit bit in regards to the holidays that we’ve had, or that we want we might create. And simply type of sitting with all of these revelations and emotions, which seems like a heavy solution to finish this podcast, but in addition perhaps the appropriate observe for the vacations in 2023.

And we want everybody a beautiful season, it doesn’t matter what your celebrations appear to be, and an awesome begin to 2024. And we shall be again with extra household dinner actual speak in 2024. So make sure you observe us on the household dinner venture.org and on Threads and Instagram and Fb, and we are going to see you all subsequent yr.

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